Interview with Jessica Lawrence-Vaca, CCO at Array Technologies

Catherine: Hi, I’m Catherine McLean, Founder and CEO of Dylan Green. And today I have with me Jessica Lawrence-Vaca, a CCO from Array Technologies. She’s walking down the street in Reston and I asked her if she’d just come in and talk to me. It’s sort of like Mr. Rogers or something.

Jessica: Yeah, just like that.

Catherine: So thanks for joining me. Can you introduce yourself and share a bit more about your role at Array Technologies as well as what makes the company a leader in solar tracking for those who are not familiar?

Jessica: Yes, thank you so much for having me. And I know that we’ve been trying to schedule this for a while, so I was really excited to be able to make this happen. And I love doing things that are close to home.

Catherine: Yes. There’s so many amazing people in the area.

Jessica: I know. It’s like I’m constantly flying places to get out of things. So it’s great to be able to just like hop in my car and do this. So yeah, I joined Array a year and three months ago, I guess in January of ‘24 came from Solve Energy. And I lead the policy ESG marketing and comms and community relations teams. And I’m also working on our customer center commercial strategy that we’re running throughout the business. And so I’m just really excited about this role. As you mentioned, we’re a leading global tracker solutions provider. We have our headquarters in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and our kind of administrative headquarters in Phoenix, Arizona, Chandler, and have footprints all over the globe, Brazil, the UK, Spain, and now in the Middle East. And so are just really excited about the expansion opportunities that the tracking provides to really enhance energy production.

Catherine: Great. Sounds like some fun places to go visit as well.

Jessica: You know, I was really focused on the U.S. this last year, and now I’m excited to start kind of doing more work and focusing on our global operations. So I’m excited about that.

Catherine: You started as a legislative correspondent in the Senate and later became senior foreign policy advisor to the House Foreign Affairs Committee, drafting speeches for hearings with high ranking officials like secretaries of state, Condoleezza Rice, and Hillary Clinton. How did you eventually make your way into clean energy?

Jessica: So I actually had one role before that, that just is not on my LinkedIn, because that would make like 25, too many things. I actually started as a staff assistant answering phones in a congressman’s office from New Jersey when I, and I actually recently posted about it on LinkedIn. It was funny. I did a meeting on Capitol Hill about a month ago in the same office that I started in. And yeah, so my background was in political science. I was always really interested in international affairs. I met Madeline Albright when I was a senior in high school. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. Like, I want, I want to do something like that. So I worked on Capitol Hill. I worked for a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee where he was focused on Asia Pacific, Latin America, Europe. And so whenever I’d write opening statements and draft questions and all sorts of different things like that. And then I left to go to the lobbying world.
So I was at a lobbying firm called the Festa Group for six years. And worked on a bunch of different projects, was still mostly focused on foreign policy, foreign governments, worked for a bunch of, it’s a nationalist group, so I worked for a bunch of defense, top 100 defense companies doing lobbying work.
And back in 2011, I guess, this first solar trade case, ADCD against Chinese modules and Chinese cells came about. And see at the time, the Trade Association did not want to take a position. And so a bunch of the Trade Association companies said, we’re going to start a separate organization to advocate against these, against this ADCD filing. And so they said, oh, Jessica, you do like kind of foreign policy trade stuff. Like, why don’t you work on that? I was like, okay. So I got put on that team and it was a lobbying and comms and lobbying and comms play. And so first case, Jigar Shah was one of the original founders, Helena Kimball, who was at Yingli at the time, George Hirschman, who was at Swinerton, now Sol. So we worked with them on putting together all the messaging, website, landing page, lobbying strategy. And so that turned into one case, and then we got hired again for the next case.
And then I hung out my own shingle and went out to go out on my own lobbying. And I, one of the people that I reached out to was George and said, Hey, I hung out my own shingle. You know, if there’s anything I can do to help, let me know. And he emailed me the following week and he said, Hey, the 201 just got launched under the last Trump administration. And I can’t be in DC all the time. Like, can I hire you to help me? And I was like, sure can.

Catherine: So funny. I didn’t realize how you all had like, I knew you all go back a long ways.

Jessica: Yeah. So we go all the way back really far. I’ve been around for a while. It’s kind of crazy. Yeah.

Catherine: Yet only in your early 20s. All right. Let’s talk about New Mexico. You previously worked on the IRA and the 45X manufacturing tax credits, and then came to work for ATI, which is leveraging these to build a manufacturing facility in New Mexico. Can you share more about this facility and why it’s significant?

Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. I’m super excited about it. We did a groundbreaking in April of last year. So coming up on a year ago that actually Jennifer Granholm, the former Secretary of Energy was there and both senators. And really, it’s just, we’ve been homegrown in Albuquerque. We’ve been there for 35 years. We just thought that we needed new space. We needed new manufacturing equipment. We’re really going to grow and expand the way that we want to. And of course, with the 45X tax credits, I mean, it just is really a no-brainer. So we invested $50 million in a new facility, staying in Albuquerque, keeping our existing workforce and then growing. We think we’re going to grow to at least 300 people. We’ll have lines in there to do manufacturing with both steel and aluminum, which we’re super excited about. And it basically is just going to be able to really up and expand our offerings and allow us to continue to commit to that community where we’ve served for so long. So we’re really excited about it. And we’ve been at least 70%, if not 75, 80% of our manufacturing supply chain has been in the U.S. since before it was cool. So even before IRB and 45X, we were very heavily predominantly U.S. manufactured. So this just provides us an opportunity to expand even more. And we hope to be, or we plan to be 100% domestic content ready to provide for all of our customers by the end of the first half of the year. So, July-ish.

Catherine: Yeah. Wow. That’s really great. I didn’t realize that. The next thing I want to talk about, a company that I really love, Lightsource bp and the name of a project I probably love even more, the Honeysuckle Project. How does that not make you smile? I feel like this has Alyssa Edwards written all over it.

Jessica: It does have Alyssa.

Catherine: She’s just one of those people that makes me smile. So, Lightsource bp’s 188 megawatt Honeysuckle Project in the Midwest uses your technology, or arrayed solar tracking technology, recently reached commercial operation. Can you talk about why this project is significant, including about how it supports the Made in America supply chain?

Jessica: So I’m just so excited about this project. Alyssa and I were chatting one day and we were talking about really the need to continue to just amplify this, this American supply chain, American made manufacturing narrative. I think particularly now it’s so important to be talking about and singing, singing the praises of the things that are happening right now and all these jobs that are out there. So I said, Hey, we’re finishing up this project with you guys. Did you know that the 12 tubes for your project, which is really close to South Bend, Indiana, were made 10 miles down the road from your project. And she was like, Oh my gosh, that’s great. And it was a local union job. So we basically decided that we were going to work with them to get a camera crew out there and just really talk about and tell that story. So you can go look on our LinkedIn page, our YouTube. I think Lightsource bp is promoted as well. We did a video with lock joint tube who manufactured, who’s like a hundred plus year old business in South Bend and is one of the largest employers in South Bend, Indiana. And that’s where the tube was manufactured. And just wanted to do a video with them to talk about the importance of that ecosystem. Also with the economic development council using the labor from the local unions and training the local unions. It was one of the first of its kind in that area. And it’s also a pollinator. A pollinator site. So it’s just hens honeysuckle. So I think it’s just one of those things that’s so exciting. Yeah, it’s a feel good story. And you know, it’s like, okay, well, here’s the solar site, but like, let’s just go down the waterfall, right? All the people that it touches and to be able to tell the story and have Kevin, the CEO of Lock Joint, tell a story of what it means to be able to work in his community and manufacture tubes that are going on site in his community and generate renewable energy. I just think it’s an awesome thing to be sharing that solar is really making impacts in those communities and generating more jobs than what is just there on the ground in the solar site.

Catherine: So that’s great. I don’t really want to talk about this next topic.

Jessica: We can just touch on it quietly.

Catherine: The effects of the election. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on why you are or not concerned about, especially if you’re not concerned about the Trump’s presidency for our industry. For example, you’ve noted that our industry actually grew quite a bit during the prior Trump administration. So give me some positive stuff.

Jessica: It did grow a lot during the prior Trump administration. But listen, in all things, I try and be positive. And as I was just talking about Honeysuckle, I’m trying to find ways to tell the story of renewables and manufacturing and jobs and how it’s impacting these communities in rural America. Like that’s what we need to be talking about. And obviously we have tariffs and discussions about IRA and repeal and tax extension and all sorts of different things. And so for me as a manufacturer and coming from an EPC before, I think those are the two like main drivers here is leading with manufacturing and leading with the construction jobs and saying, look at, we have had, I think it’s $25 billion in investment, a hundred facilities that have either been announced or are there under construction or opened 29,000 new jobs. 80% of that is in red states. So I think we just need to keep talking about that and talking to the members about this impacting their communities. And do I worry that there’s going to be things that are going to be cut? Will we have sunsets or things like that? Yes. I’m worried about all those things, but I mean, the technology is there. You can’t argue with the fact that it’s the cheapest and the fastest to deploy. And then if I go back and put my national security, economic security hat on, we’re on a collision course right now with not having enough electricity generation. Like it’s a very real thing between AI and data centers. The re-shoring of all this manufacturing we’ve been talking about, the electrification of all of these manufacturing facilities and transportation and all of these different things.

Catherine: Energy has to come from somewhere.

Jessica: Energy has to come from somewhere. And there’s been some great reports that have been released recently, Brattle and Conserve America just released a report and they said, between now and 2030, we need a branch to get from here to there. And renewables are the fastest and cheapest to deploy. You know, I think for national gas plants, new national gas plants that are coming online, I think there’s three that are in construction over the next five years. That’s not even considering nuclear, modular nuclear, which I have, I think there’s all sorts of, like, concerns that people have around that. But just looking at the next five years where we need significant, like, significant multiplier of electricity of what we have now, I think we need to be solutions oriented. And I think providing the solutions and telling the good story is how I’m trying to remain optimistic. So that’s where I am right now.

Catherine: It will be interesting to see what happens, obviously, because especially by the time this airs, there will be a decision, right? It’s going to happen in the next couple of months around what the IRA is going to do that.

Jessica: I think that, yeah, I think we might have a little bit more time. I think that Speaker Johnson wants to have a decision by Memorial Day. I think that that’s incredibly aggressive. They only have, I think, 18 days that they’re actually in session between now and Memorial Day.
So I think we’re looking best, best cases, probably by August recess, but really the backstop is December 31st when the TCGA expires. So I think somewhere between August recess and Christmas is really when we are probably going to see something rounding out. I have my crystal ball.

Catherine: Okay. That’s good. I know you’re a mom of four and I’m about to be a mom of four.
Because I’m mom a four boys. We could start a basketball team.

Jessica: And you’re going to have bonus kids and I have bonus kids.

Catherine: Bonus kids. We love bonus kids. We love boys, boy moms, boy moms. You’ve been vocal about the challenges of balancing work and family life. What advice do you have for other parents managing similar struggles demanding, in demanding clean energy careers?

Jessica: Um, you can’t do everything well all at the same time, just not possible. And so I feel like you have to get comfortable with I’m probably a bit of a perfectionist and a little OCD on some things. And I think we probably share a lot.

Catherine: Are you a Virgo?

Jessica: I’m a Leo. Um, but you know, I feel I try and communicate with my kids as much as possible. I try and be there when it really matters. I feel like when I’m home, because most of my work takes what I’m taking, doing a lot of work on the road, like when I’m at home, I actually can work at home and be there in the morning, be there in the evening. And I try and be as uber present as possible as I can during those times. I miss them horribly when I’m gone and they miss me, at least I hope they miss me when I’m gone. But, and I think just having a partner who is like tremendously helpful and all of those things and who has basically gotten the point because I was managing before I took this job, I was, um I would kind of still manage schedule, even when I was on the road and things like that. And we’ve gotten to the point where my husband’s like, okay, I’ve got it. You need to butt out. Like I’ll handle it. So I think having a really strong, helpful partner is probably the only way that we get through making sure that you stay connected with your family and your kids and just like I asked, I crawl into bed with my son every night and I’m like, okay, what’s the gossip at school today? Like, tell me what’s going on. Also being really intentional and very like I try and guard my time really well. Like I have I work with people who are on the West coast and so from six to 8 PM here, like my calendar is blocked. Don’t mess with that time. That’s when I’m cooking dinner or while we’re eating and putting my kids to bed, like leave me alone and I’m going to reject meetings during that time period, unless it’s super important. Because like, that’s my time, like that’s my family time and I need that. So I guess I just try to be comfortable with the discomfort of not maybe doing everything well all the time and just trying to be intentional and really showing up when it matters. But I feel like anybody who says that you can do it all and have it all at the same time is full of crap.

Catherine: I mean, I think it also I’m curious to have somebody struck me about this earlier this week about, how their kids are proud of like what she’s doing. Right. So, I mean, that we’re also doing like good work, right? Like, so I wonder if they realize that, I mean, they’re a little older, your kids. So maybe they do realize that or, a little older than mine is what I mean.

Jessica: Yeah. I mean, they understand what I’m doing they’re not on social media, so they’re not seeing like any of like that type of stuff, virtual, like posting or anything. But I tell them all the time that I’m doing what I do so that they can have a better future and better planet because I think it really matters. And that’s why I’m away. It’s a little bit existential for them sometimes.
Yeah. Like, okay. Like but I need you right now. Yeah, I think my older boys who are 19, almost 20 and 16, like, I think that they definitely get it a little bit more. And I asked my 16 year old the other day, I was like, do you understand what I do? And he’s like, I think you work for like a solar company or something. But you know, I’m looking forward to actually kind of maybe being able to this summer to bring some of them on trips or two events. To actually seen more of what it looks like.

Catherine: Yeah. That’d be great.

Jessica: Because I think it’s like my mom worked, my husband’s mom worked, was actually a total like badass, like ahead of her time. And so I want them to see and of course I don’t judge anybody for whatever choices women that they make work, stay at home, whatever. But I just want them to see what a woman standing in her power or doing what she wants to do, whatever that is. And like, and then having a strong partner, like that looks like that’s really important. Especially raising boys. Cause they need to see that.

Catherine: I was just thinking that I was going to drop it.

Jessica: Like, how do you, how do you do that for your son?

Catherine: Yeah. I was thinking that because I think it’s also when raising boys, it shows them how to treat a woman, how to respect a woman, like the value and worth of a woman. And yeah, I don’t think, I don’t think he really understands what I do at this stage. I think he thinks it’s cool that his name’s on everything. At first he was really confused. He’d look at my computer and be like, why does my name want everything? I mean you hope when they get older that they’re proud of you that you are making a difference.

Jessica: So yeah. And I think that they’ll, I think that they definitely understand and they know that I get to go cool places sometimes. And you know, a couple weeks ago I was in Phoenix and I got tickets for focus on my team and some customers to go to Dodger spring training. And my son was like, that’s totally not cool. Mom, I can’t believe that you’re going without us. I can’t believe that you got to see Otani play. And sometimes there’s stuff that they’re a little bit like, why are you doing that without me? But I’m looking forward to a time when I can kind of start like bringing them along for the ride to see, but I just think it’s important for them to like see us doing what we love and being respected by our partners and having a partnership. And I want them to want that for themselves too.

Catherine: Sure. Yeah. Dylan’s bummed he’s not going to Vegas. Because he’s hit the age where you can’t, I could take him a couple of years ago when he was a little one, but now he’s in proper school. Like I’m not going to just pull him out one week after he started. So when I talk next about mentorship, cause I know mentorship can be crucial for growth, particularly in leadership roles. How does mentorship influence your journey and do you have any mentors currently in the clean energy space?

Jessica: I was actually just talking to one of my colleagues about this earlier today, because he was interviewing me for an NBA project that he was doing, which was cool. And he asked me about like mentorship and I said like, honestly, until I, until the last couple of years, I haven’t had kind of informal mentors and I’ve seen most of them than men. I actually didn’t have very positive experiences. I don’t know about you with like female leaders or female bosses. And it wasn’t until I came into the solar industry and even here, like my CEOs have all been men and have been I think really influential on me and getting me more interested in, in business by just sitting and talking to me about like how things work, how this happens, how that happens, how transactions happen, how finance works, how this deal is done. And so I felt like I just sat and listened a lot and I was just interested and curious. But it wasn’t until the last couple of years meeting one of our mutual good friends, Abby Hopper. And I would say a number of other women in the clean energy space Amanda Smith with AES, Erica Doll, there’s several women, Stephanie down from McCarthy. I feel like I don’t know if it’s necessarily like a mentorship, but almost like camaraderie. But still like somebody who’s willing to call you out and be like Hey you could have thought about doing this differently or that you can call and be like, I am really struggling with this right now. I just needed to tell somebody, yeah. Um, I was on a plane last week, actually going to info cast and I had just put my family on a plane and I’d been on the road for two weeks and it was going to Phoenix to speak at this conference and then going home. And I just had like all this anxiety for a minute. And I was like, I haven’t had that for a while. Like, why do I feel like I have an elephant sitting on my chest? And I texted Abby and I said, I’m going to info cast right now. I’ve been on the road for two weeks. I’m tired. I don’t want to be going anywhere. And I just needed to tell somebody. And she was like, I’m so sorry. Like, thank you for telling me I’m gonna be there tomorrow. Like let’s have lunch. And it’s like, I immediately felt better. And so I think having a group of women or a group of people just generally that you can reach out to and bounce ideas off of who are, who are able to like to hear your truth has been really important to me. And I can just be very honest and authentic with, like there’s no judgment. And I think that’s been really, cause I feel like for a long time I care, like I just kind of, like it was my backpack. Like I just added more proverbial crap, like into the backpack and then carried it. And it got to the point where it got so weighed down that like, oh my gosh, I’m just like, I don’t know what to do with all this. And so I think kind of post COVID and in some kind of more leadership roles, it’s been great. Adding some, some people who are willing to help carry that backpack sometimes. And I think mentorship is also really important, but I think it’s also really hard sometimes because again, we’re talking about like we have kids and families and work and travel and all of these things. And I want to talk to more people and I want to mentor more people and actually, Elizabeth Kaita and I were just talking about this. She’s like, it just takes so much time and energy and I don’t want to say no to people. And so I think I’ve also never both talking about how we’ve been talking to people and then maybe like not passing them off with saying, Hey, can I introduce you to this person who might be able to like share the load a little bit. And just trying to help women in particular create these networks so that you have like your advisor, your personal advisory board or your personal backpack carrier supporters. Like help, help carrying that, like carrying that burden. So yeah, honestly, I’ve had, I don’t know about you, but I’ve had like actually a lot of men in my career that have been really invested in my growth and um, and opportunities. And I, I love to see the shift now that I feel like women are actually kind of come over the hump of more like supporting women as opposed to like, no, this is my seat at the table. It’s not yours. Cause I ran into that a lot.

Catherine: Yeah. I know. I totally agree with you. I think I don’t know where the general, like where it stops, like what generation to the next, but I do feel like the generation before me doesn’t seem, and I don’t there’s obviously exceptions, but I think our generation seems to be more to acknowledge more that it’s important. My challenge with it has been the formalization. Cause I am not a formal person. As everyone knows. And so I’ve created this incredible, or I am creating, this incredible network of women who I help that they help me. We help each other, but it’s not formal. And so I think that’s some of the challenge when a younger person will say, I want you to be my mentor. I’m like, but don’t know anything about me or don’t you. Like that comes with time. It’s organic.

Jessica: Exactly. And I had, when I was at my previous company, we had, we started a more formal mentoring program because there were a lot of people who were either new to the industry or new to the organization and kind of needed a buddy. And who needed and we didn’t have at the time, like the kind of formal management or leadership training they do now. But I still talked to the woman that I was mentoring and I called her actually a couple weeks ago and I said, Hey, we haven’t caught up for a long time. Like we’re different companies now, but she became a friend and there was a lot that was going on at the time. And I mean, I would just try and kind of listen to how she was approaching things or what was going on and to say Hey, can I offer you a perspective? Like, what if you thought about it this way? Or it might behoove you to like, think about approaching this person in that way. And I feel like even just as a sounding board so that you’re not missing the forest for the trees. So I think in companies, like having that more formal process is good sometimes just to expose people to other parts of the business. But I think like you’re saying, industry-wide, I think it’s great to like meet people. But yeah I feel like it would be very strange if somebody was like, Jessica, I want you to formally mentor me.

Catherine: It’s like what is interesting about the comment you made about how a lot of the time in your career, men have been the ones that have been mentors. I have personally found diverse men in particular have been the, I wouldn’t even say mentors, but like advocates for me. So have stood up for me and fought for me. Perhaps because they could identify with maybe some of what I was going through. But I always, when I look back, I always think that was so interesting. I had never thought about it at the time until I got older and reflected on it.

Jessica: That’s super interesting. I am sitting here thinking about that. And I, I would say that it’s been for sure both. I’ve had plenty of white males as mentors and who have supported me, but also for sure men of color. There’s definitely been some that I still talk to to this day that have been like great advocates of mine.

Catherine: You’ve not only entered the clean energy industry, but have excelled in leadership positions. What advice can you offer to women aspiring to follow a similar path aside from seeking mentorship, which we’ve just discussed?

Jessica: I think be curious. I mean, two things. I would say just intellectual curiosity is super important. We constantly ask people tell me more about that. Can I sit in on that? Can I learn more about that? You know, my colleague that I was talking to earlier, he said you haven’t, you took a very nonlinear path going from doing more policy and marketing to going into more of the commercial space. I spent a lot of time with my previous CEO, my current CEO, just again, listening to how the business works, how it operates, what they’re thinking about what’s most important. I think asking for opportunities, not being afraid to ask for opportunities, not being afraid to ask for a seat at the table, not being afraid to be creative, to think outside the box. I would say that all of those are incredibly important things. And then from a leadership perspective, somebody who wants to move up and manage people. I think caring about people. I’m an empath by nature. And I was just listening actually on the way here to a podcast by Simon Sinek, where he’s interviewing one of his friends who recently retired from the Air Force. Who’s a woman and talking about her leadership journey. And I think about the leadership qualities that are sometimes more female leaders. I don’t necessarily know, but are some of the female qualities considered to be some of the soft qualities and female qualities and leadership important? Yes.
And there’s plenty of data and studies out there from Harvard Business Review and all sorts of different things that talk about the importance of caring about your people, caring about your customers. If I I could tell you right now, like my top like seven or eight or EPC customers, like how many kids they have, their wives names like probably where they went on vacation recently, like just because we talk, like and I talked to folks about tell me what’s going on in your life, like what’s been going on recently. And people, people connect with people. And I think data is important, making fact-based decisions is important, but also listening to your people, taking care of your people, taking care of your customers who are your people, listening to them. I think that that is really critical in order to kind of move, move up in leadership. And sometimes you can’t always, like, take care of people’s needs, but sometimes just listening is important.

Catherine: Sometimes listening is enough.

Jessica: Sometimes listening is enough. Sometimes people just need to be heard. And it might take time and it expends a lot of energy. But it’s a lot easier. I mean in my journey this past year, I was working with our sales team and worked on the sales transformation after our last CRO left and before our new one came in. And we had a sales team that they needed more people. They were overworked. There was not, like, always clear goals and instructions and guidance. And there was one day where I’m trying to get them from here to there on something. I called each of them up and I probably spent seven people an hour on the phone each. So my entire day talking to them about, like, tell me tell me what I need to know. Like, what’s working? What’s not working? How can I support you? What does the company need to know? What are you struggling with? And by the end, it’s like, okay, we started here and we got to here, but they just needed to feel heard.

Catherine: And then it probably made you better equipped to find the next CRO. Because you knew exactly what you were dealing with.

Jessica: And now that he’s there, Darren, who is great, and we have a great relationship because I’ve been able to help him say, like, here’s the insights that I’ve gathered and here’s and I want to help you be successful and help us be successful in turn. And so I think that never underestimate the people’s qualities of just trying to listen and make people’s lives better and hearing them. And I think starting out as in Congress working with constituents and then working as a lobbyist, working with clients. I mean, you’re in the people business. You’re trying to help people and you’re trying to advocate on their behalf, really understand what their needs are. And so I feel like it translates into leadership. It translates into business. It translates into life. I mean you have boys. Like, boys have a lot of feelings.

Catherine: They do have a lot of feelings. About a lot of things. And my son still cries, when I go to, like, I go out at night. Crazy.

Jessica: Yeah. But I mean, I think I, it’s funny having worked in fairly male dominant environments in defense and construction, manufacturing, renewables, which I think has gotten a lot better, but for a while it was pretty bro-y. But I also have four boys and a husband. And like, I feel like that has prepared me pretty well, both ways to deal in male dominated environments.

Catherine: Yeah. You know, it’s interesting. I definitely think like on the developer side, we’ve made strides. I don’t know. That’s why I appreciate even more what you do, because it is even more challenging, I think, in that space than working for an IPP or something.

Jessica: Yeah. I mean, it was very interesting. I remember at Solve when I was going through leadership training and we had DEI training and one day trying to work through. And one of the construction guys was there and was like it’s command and control out there on the projects, like you’re dealing with people that just understand, like, this is the job that needs to get done and you have to be firm with them. And I said, okay, I mean, but this isn’t just about that. It’s also what happens if somebody is late to work one day because their kid is sick and has to go to the doctor. And so they’re super stressed out or what happens if somebody’s husband or wife, like, has a long term illness or what happens if somebody behind the scenes is like caring for an elderly parent who’s in memory care. Like, this is also about just having that, like, slightly extra emotional intelligence to understand that, like, something’s always happening behind the scenes. And that was like this, like, aha moment for this construction guy who was like, oh I guess I hadn’t really thought about it that way. And so I feel like we make strides here and there.

Catherine: Inches eventually turn into yards. Well, thanks for taking the time to speak with me, And I’m glad we finally made this happen.

Jessica: Yeah, I’m so happy. This was great. Thank you so much for having me. And I love being in this, in this Dylan Green space. It’s awesome.